"When we die as humans our brains cease to function. We don't go anywhere, we merely stop functioning as the chemical processes in our body run out. The idea of consciousness is the self awareness that we are indeed a very complicated chemical reaction. Eventually the reaction must complete itself either by the breakdown of the vessel (the body) or the lack of input of the reactants needed (the lack of food)."
Pretty clinical, eh? Actually, he's right. We sure as fuck don't get reincarnated or float off to some cloud, strumming a harp. (I hate the effing things! Bagpipes even more!) The pseudo-Christian belief is that the redeemed go to heaven or hell, (I'll get two birds with this rock!) upon death, which is bullshit. While there have been exceptions to this rule about going to Heaven, throughout history, nobody has yet gone to a fiery pit full of other dead sinners and imps and devils. The Bible, from day one in Genesis, teaches that sin results in death... hence the fact that we all age and die. (A damned good thing, too, who'd want to live forever in a shit hole like this planet is?)
Genesis 3:1-3, explicitly tells us that Adam and Eve were told that they would DIE if they disobeyed God. I don't read ANYWHERE in that passage or anywhere else (other than that lying Satan's bullshit about NOT dying) where it says you'll either go to Heaven or a fiery pit. It simply says they would die, if they disobeyed, which they did. And, throughout the Bible, it says that death is the result of sin. Why would there be a final judgment if everyone were already in Heaven or the pit? There is a hellfire mentioned in execution of the unrepentant at the end of time, however, the word translated as "hell" in the Bible, simply means "grave".
Dealing with our blogger's former belief about reincarnation... this is just another version of that same lie that Satan told Eve, when he told her she wouldn't die if she disobeyed her creator. Just as the eternal torment bullshit is merely another way of denying the purpose God had in removing all possibility of the existence of an immortal sinner, by barring Adam from the Tree of Life, so the doctrine of successive lives simply accentuates the idea that man can perform his own expiation without an intercessor, given enough time. One can also see this heinous belief as the underlying foundation for the specious belief of evolution being the case for man's origin. Given enough time, man can do anything... WITHOUT God, of course!
In a nutshell, all humans cease to function, physically and metaphysically, at death. The invigorating, yet unconscious life force returns to God, Who bestowed it, and the body returns to it's elemental components - dust.
An immortal sinner was never in the cards with God, nor will He now or later contradict Himself by keeping the infidels alive for roasting for eternity. They will be dispatched, but, without extreme prejudice. They are simply killed and not given the opportunity for immortality.
http://a-million-gods.blogspot.com/2011/07/we-are-all-made-of-stars.html
ReplyDeleteMy response is up.
It isn't up HERE. Remember the deal? I'm through being censored. It's here or nowhere.
ReplyDeleteI don't censor people's comments and my responses are above the limit on your blog for comments.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the second post is in excess of 4096 characters.
ReplyDelete"I don't censor people's comments..."
ReplyDeleteI've heard that, before! Nope, it's here or nowhere. Split your comments up, it's easy enough to do. I can regulate the trolls that inevitably try and break up discussions, here, as well.
"explicitly tells us that Adam and Eve were told that they would DIE if they disobeyed God."
ReplyDeleteEve took the apple before she had the knowledge of good and evil. She only knew the difference after she'd eaten the apple, so she cannot have disobeyed god. She could not have known it was 'evil' to disobey before she had the apple. It's like saying a dog that accidentally sets of a gun that kills someone is guilty of murder. Can you get that through your tiny little bible-addled brain? Fuck, Adam and Eve is such a STUPID story.
"Eve took the apple before she had the knowledge of good and evil."
ReplyDelete*Knocking on dumbass's skull*
Hello? Anyone in there? I guess you're illiterate, so I'll explain AGAIN that Eve knew NOT to touch the fruit of that particular tree on pain of death... that which results in not trusting one's Maker when He tells you something isn't good for you. Both she and the serpent (Satan) confirmed this prior knowledge before she sinned. Also, if you have a gun-slinging dog, I'd like to see that... along with your proof that evolution isn't the raving bullshit I know it is.
Think your Darwinism-addled brain can process that request, Bozo? If not, get your dog to do it, he sounds smarter than you, anyway.
Eve could not know... The apple is symbolic of enlightenment and knowledge. It would be like leaving a knife around a 3 year old then complaining when it hurt itself. A responsible person would keep the knife away.
ReplyDeleteAnd indeed it is knowledge rather than a knife. Something useful and good.
It's not a fair debate if my comments have to be split up, an argument like a speech must flow between it's points otherwise it doesn't read properly. I used Disqus rather than blogger's comments which means that there is no limit on posts. I failed to realise that there was a limit.
ReplyDeleteIf you wish we can post our comments as actual posts which would allow us to format and deal with each other's comments specifically rather than one of us attempting to use the limited formatting capacity of the comments section.
Adam and Eve knew nothing of sin, being created perfect. They were obviously warned about what a firsthand knowledge of evil could do to them if they disobeyed, otherwise she or the serpent wouldn't have been talking about the consequences. Eve knew she wasn't to touch the tree, not out of any specific magical properties it had for condemning her, it was merely the object chosen for them as a test of their loyalty as free moral agents. It could have been a rock or some other object, however, being a fruit-laden tree and given their occupation as gardeners, the test was engineered to fit the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteYou have to consider that, given this warning, Adam and Eve also knew about Satan's attempted coup in Heaven, prior to their creation. He had made certain allegations against God, including His alleged authoritarianism in His dealings with His creation... the other unfallen beings in the universe. God was forced to prove that His government is one based upon mutual trust, so He allowed Adam to be tempted, not interfering.
That "apple" was symbolic of the trust God places with his intelligent creations... they failed that trust and reaped the consequences for it. They were cut off from Eden and the nourishment that would sustain their lives indefinitely. Satan then assumed rulership over them, which ultimately gave us the world we have now.
They could have chosen to trust God, and none of the misery that man has had to endure up to now would have happened. Fortunately, God is still in control and will rectify matters completely, in due time.
What's not fair about it? Hell, I've had to do it on others' blogs, they never accommodated me, they won't even PUBLISH my comments, anymore! And YOU are complaining?
ReplyDeleteWhen you make your comment, copy it first, then submit it. If it doesn't post, it's a simple matter to divide it up, as you still have it saved. Simply edit and link them with "continued..." Easy! Better yet, don't post long comments, be concise and to the point. That's the trouble with today's publishers, they think quality is in quantity and long, convoluted discourses. I get bored with long-winded diatribes, when the message can be shorter.
I told you how I was going to do it, you agreed... now you're caviling? Forget it, then.
Except that my comments deal specifically with quotes that you make and it's really clunky to do so otherwise.
ReplyDeleteAnd oh my no. The fact is that the very idea of Eden is a cage. Would you rather live in a box with all your needs taken care of, or in a real world?
The eden story is simply not true. The fact remains that humanity is genetically diverse enough to put a cropper to that plan since we would literally have to mutate every generation to maintains our populations at this state.
That and we have a kind of written history of mankind in cave paintings. Pre-historic cave paintings mean that there was no written history, only oral and drawings. The people who made them are undeniably human and undeniably intelligent.
The adam and eve story is a metaphor. Not reality. If it were reality it would actually hold god as a horrific jailer.
A parent who doesn't let his child learn, instead trying to maintain a state of childish grace by not imparting knowledge would be regarded as abusive. We have children who are treated like that and the result is quite bad.
And as I said, some points are long and require to be long. Some require pictures and links. I cannot do that on here because as I said, I use a comment system that allows cross posting from other blogs and collects user's stats across blogs.
It's hard to debate with a word count. Particularly when you are arguing with science.
"Except that my comments deal specifically with quotes that you make and it's really clunky to do so otherwise."
ReplyDeleteI'll show you how it's done...
"And oh my no. The fact is that the very idea of Eden is a cage. Would you rather live in a box with all your needs taken care of, or in a real world?"
That "box" you speak of was a freshly made planet, as yet unaffected by sin and transformed by a world-wide catastrophe - the Great Flood. And, yeah... after having busted my ass for over half a century in an unyielding world run by rich fuckers, I wouldn't mind being kept. The "real world" is getting REAL OLD, for me!
"The eden story is simply not true. The fact remains that humanity is genetically diverse enough to put a cropper to that plan since we would literally have to mutate every generation to maintains our populations at this state."
Man originally possessed a greater vitality, it was necessary to populate the new world and the post-flood world. The Bible records the diminishing life-spans of the patriarchs from centuries to the minuscule few decades we live now. A man living for centuries could soon produce the required number of offspring, along with those, themselves, exponentially raising the number of descendants in a short while.
"That and we have a kind of written history of mankind in cave paintings. Pre-historic cave paintings mean that there was no written history, only oral and drawings. The people who made them are undeniably human and undeniably intelligent."
They also drew pictures of dinosaurs IN ACTION against them, beings that they should have had no knowledge of, given the evolutionary theory of protracted epochs of time separating them. The evidence clearly states that the two - man and dinosaur - lived contemporaneously, as the Bible says they did.
"The adam and eve story is a metaphor. Not reality. If it were reality it would actually hold god as a horrific jailer."
Your unsubstantiated opinion.
"A parent who doesn't let his child learn, instead trying to maintain a state of childish grace by not imparting knowledge would be regarded as abusive. We have children who are treated like that and the result is quite bad."
On the contrary, God, indeed, did allow His children to learn... and they chose the HARD way! As I mentioned earlier, God did not interfere with their choice to sin, having warned them of the consequences. They removed themselves from His care and plunged an entire race into ruin and misery. They weren't ready to go it alone, as are so many kids, today. I can see if God had forced them to remain, He would have been blamed for smothering and controlling them, too! A no-win situation.
"And as I said, some points are long and require to be long. Some require pictures and links. I cannot do that on here because as I said, I use a comment system that allows cross posting from other blogs and collects user's stats across blogs."
Knock yourself out... this is what I use.
"It's hard to debate with a word count. Particularly when you are arguing with science."
You'll do fine. Where's your spirit of adventure? Is this attitude worthy of the proud progeny of those hunched-over denizens of the tree-tops, so vaunted and admired by the self-proclaimed viziers of science and society?
Take a lesson (or two) from a soldier of Christ... endeavor to persevere!
Urgh! Atleast use a format that pays attention to the text rather than side bars!
ReplyDelete1. A prison is a prison no matter the furnishings. You may be satisfied with a gilt cage but human beings long to be free. And in your world view it is better to be an animal than be a human. The only difference between animals and humans is our acquisition of knowledge and it's value.
While you may like living in a cage trust me, most of us prefer freedom.
2. There is no proof of this vitality. Our oldest skeletons of mankind show that they die relatively young and that life expectancy has been increasing. There is no proof of this.
The oldest skull recognisable as a proto human is around 2 million years old. The bible fails to mention where different races sprang up including the races halfway across the world. Noah is said to have lived around 2500 BC.
Hint the Egyptian civilisation is older than 4000 BC and doesn't seem to have been affected by the global flood. The indian civilisation didn't mention any floods.
The bible states that the entirity of mankind descended from Noah in 2500 BC. In just 500 years they had millions of people spread across the world learning how to build pyramids one of the most labour intensive monuments world wide not to mention travel across the Bering strait to North America and travel to Australia? No doubt with all the marsupials right?
The Noah story is again allegory. It is plain idiotic to try and argue it. There are so many things wrong from the actual evidence of civilisations, to the lack of genetic diversity which would have crippled humanity (hint 15 people is an extinction level event. The genetic diversity would quickly cause homogenity and destruction. It's the actual reason why incest is bad for you. With whatever the population of humans on Noah's boat the actual result is the equivalent of incest since half the people were Noah's actual genetic family. Even if he produced one child for most of his life he would produce 500... Remember women can only really produce one every year. And this is if they all survived. With their technology literally half would die in the first year.
Sure you can say magic but then I can say "4 armed gods of hinduism say no because of magic too" and then we cannot really have a logical discussion because it's literally like arguing who would win "Lion-o or He Man"
3. Where? No one bloody did. Are you seriously suggesting that all the dinosaurs went extinct because we hunted them all out across the world. That's like saying we killed all the reptiles or all the birds. You have to realise they are an entire family of organisms not T-Rex and Chums.
And compared to a T-Rex we would have come of on the losing end. The size and power difference is large enough. We had enough problems hunting bloody lions.
And no. They probably had dinosaur skeletons which they misconstrued. I have actually seen artifacts claiming to be dragon skulls, many turning out to be Crocodile skulls which would be huge and scary to the average person who had never seen a crocodile.
4. If you refused to educate your children then you would be Jailed not thought of as a considerate father.
5. Which is still daft since we evolved to get to this stage. There was no evidence of Adam and Eve bar the bible which is unreliable since it indicates they existed after the formation of human civilisation.
Adam and Eve never really existed. There is no proof of them at all.
A
This isn't an adventure. This is arguing with someone. It is best to keep this to actual posts. Your arguments are simplistic bible verse. Mine are scientific.
ReplyDeleteWe evolved from ground dwelling apes. Not trees.
There is perseverence and there is trying to get blood from a stone. Honestly you won't learn.
Alright, I'll make this one concession and execute this debate in a different format... HERE, on this blog.
ReplyDeleteI'll make a page for this and all discussion will be entered there. I'll post your comments to it.
NO one else is invited to comment. It's you and me, Avicenna, for as long as you choose to stay.
ReplyDelete